Calgarygrit is running Canada's Greatest Premier contest, and this is where you vote for the Saskatchewan nominees. With the exclusion of the current premier, you can vote for any of Saskatchewan's thirteen premiers. For those of you who thought Tommy Douglas was the only noteworthy candidate, please check here for the earlier post and learn about Saskatchewan's rich history of leadership. The top vote getter will move on to Calgarygrit's national competition. So in the meantime, I am looking at you out there in mouseland, when I say - vote:
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47 comments:
Who is voting for Gardiner? He was the Ralph Goodale of the post-war era, as in a good invisible Ag Minister. What did he do as Premier?
Grant Devine ALL THE WAY HA HA HA HA, I CAN'T BELIEVE I VOTED FOR HUM JUST NOW
Its Jimmy Gardiner, not William Gardiner. Jimmy Gardiner fought the Ku Klux Klan in the late 1920s and early 1930s and won. He was also a tireless fighter for Saskatchewan farmers.
Go Jimmy go!
After what the NDP did to him in the Tommy Giant movie, it's about time he got a little revenge.
After what the NDP did to him in the Tommy Giant movie, Jimmy would vote for Grant Devine, too - just to twist the knife a little harder.
Tommy Douglas was not only the greatest premier ... he was the greatest Canadian ever! Canadians should kiss the ground they live on every day for universal health care. Just look south of the border where families go bankrupt every day and heartless insuarance companies cut off their coverage at the first sign of illness if you're wondering why Canadians are lucky they had a leader who was willing to fight THE MAN!
Definitely not Tommy Douglas, the creator of the heartless socialist healthcare system in Canada. What about Janice Fraser from Ontario? Forty yrs old and she has to wear a urinebag for the rest of her life because her bladder died before 32 months--where she was on the waiting list. When she, and her Mom, offered to pay even more money (in addition to the exhorbitant amount they paid in taxes) to get moved up the wawiting list, they were told, "as a Canadian citizen, you are not allowed to pay for your own healthcare".
Canadians are being bankrupted every day from having to pay large taxes for healthcare, and then have to pay again when they go to the USA to get healed, which is the only option unless you want to be on a 2 year waiting list.
Bankrupt yourself or die.
Devine is leading as the best Premier? I guess if by best Premier you mean almost bankrupting the province.
Anon, I suppose he'd have to be the best in order to avoid being charged along with the criminals he worked with. ;-)
It is James Garfield Gardiner before you do something like this get your names right it looks really unprofessional
HaHa!
Give 'er snoose, Bruce!
P.S.
You don't say 'Whoa' in a mudhole!
Grant Devine is number one because he, unlike his contemporaries and successors, believed in the people and that Saskatchewan could be bigger and better, stronger and wealthier. He took chances, but left the province better than he found it.
The debt would have been there no matter what. At the time everything Saskatchewan did was in the tank: oil & gas, uranium, agriculture, and even potash. Don't fall for the usual punchlines! History bears this out!
Anonymous, I have to agree with you I could not have said it better.
(Grant Devine is number one because he, unlike his contemporaries and successors, believed in the people and that Saskatchewan could be bigger and better, stronger and wealthier. He took chances, but left the province better than he found it.
The debt would have been there no matter what. At the time everything Saskatchewan did was in the tank: oil & gas, uranium, agriculture, and even potash. Don't fall for the usual punchlines! History bears this out!)
I also liked J.T.M. Anderson, he brought back the natural resource revenues to sask from the federal government.
Anonymous9 and Huffb1 - Nice rewriting of history. I don't agree that "believing in people" means firing them from there jobs and selling off the companies they used to work for so that those companies could be moved out of the province.
As for creating such an disastrous debt, you must be delusional to say it would have happened. Here are just three simple ways that the amount of debt would have been less:
(1) Not giving a gas tax to farmers
(2) Not giving a hot tub grant to homeowners
(3) Not having members of the Conservatives steal from taxpayers
anonymous said;
"Tommy Douglas was not only the greatest premier ... he was the greatest Canadian ever! Canadians should kiss the ground they live on every day for universal health care. Just look south of the border where families go bankrupt every day and heartless insuarance companies cut off their coverage at the first sign of illness if you're wondering why Canadians are lucky they had a leader who was willing to fight THE MAN!"YADAYADAYADA....
Now:
Your just like the rest of those left wing lemmings....Tommy this Tommy that.......Tommy the Messiah who will come again....
Yes.I am thankful for the Universal Healthcare system that would have killed my friend on a awaiting list, but along comes the evil Americans and he is a walking picture of health today.
Just so you know. It is against the law, I repeat against the law in the USA for them to turn down medical treatment at a hospital. Those who can't pay premium, there is medicaid. Somewho can don't pay the premium...so whose fault was that? I may remind you, there was health premium when Tommy was in power. (I can hear the howling now that the US pays premiums....well have you looked at your taxation lately? You could buy a good insurance plan for what you pay)
But is much better to die on a waiting list in this country to pay martyrdom to Tommy the Commy... and his substandard bloated system....right?...The end justifies the means??? Right????
Tommy Douglas: Father of the Two-year wait for cancer surgery. Thanks so much.
Divine was by far the better premier. The Rafferty and Alameda reservoirs will endure longer than lousy socialist health care. And at least Divine remains devoted to Saskatchewan. Douglas, as federal NDP leader, got whipped in Regina, left the province in a snit and never came back. To him, Saskatchewan was a step stool.
Pioneering premiership from 1944 to 1961 a step-stool?
Actually, a measure of his legacy was that the federal team desperately wanted him.
Contrast that with Devine. He was so unloved and unloavable that the federal Conservatives - boasting a stellar SK team with the brainy likes of Scheer, Lukiwski, Yelich et al - would have none of him and he had to end up getting soundly defeated in the 2004 election as an independent. Oh yeah, and his legacy was so great that the party had to change its name after he left. This is farcical.
Whatsheaf - you've got to do something about this hijacking which is giving you zero correlation with the general sentiment in Saskatchewan (and when I say "general", I mean across party lines, class, urban-rural, etc.
Soundly defeated?
Ed Komarnicki CONS 11306 36.9
Grant Devine INDP 8399 27.4
Lonny McKague LIB 6001 19.6
RobertStringer NDP 4202 13.7
If that's "soundly defeated", the words one might select to describe the NDP candidates' performance are probably inappropriate for a family audience.
Yes, a former Premier (who is being mooted here as Saskatchewan's best ever) got 27% against the illustrious Komarnicki.
I'm not being partisan here. The NDP's Ed Schreyer also was "soundly defeated" - in his case by the illustrious James Bezan when he attempted a comeback. I would similarly say that this definitely hurts his case for being Manitoba's greatest Premier.
To the last Anonymous poster, I agree that the current poll does not reflect general sentiments of Devine in Saskatchewan - but that is the beauty of internet polling. I would encourage you to get bloggers out and vote to narrow Devine's large lead.
come on fellow Torys!! Keep voting for Grant Devine to stop the NDP and Liberals from coming back
" Anonymous said...
Pioneering premiership from 1944 to 1961 a step-stool?
Actually, a measure of his legacy was that the federal team desperately wanted him.
Contrast that with Devine. He was so unloved and unloavable that the federal Conservatives - boasting a stellar SK team with the brainy likes of Scheer, Lukiwski, Yelich YADAYADAYADAYADA....... Oh yeah, and his legacy was so great that the party had to change its name after he left. This is farcical.YADAYADAYADA........
Whatsheaf - you've got to do something about this hijacking which ......YADAYADAYADA.....
Hey Buddy:
Of course the Federal Team wanted him (Commie Douglas). Someone starving will eat the last rotten apple in the bottom of the barrel if they have to too.
Actually, if you knew anything about politics you would realize that the Progressive Party is still going in Sask, so you assertion they changed their name doesn't hold much water, if any. Check out Rick Swenson.
Speaking of "Hijacking". Does it bother you when people don't vote the way you want them. Just wait until the next provincial election :)
"Grant Devine is number one because he, unlike his contemporaries and successors, believed in the people and that Saskatchewan could be bigger and better, stronger and wealthier. He took chances, but left the province better than he found it.
The debt would have been there no matter what. At the time everything Saskatchewan did was in the tank: oil & gas, uranium, agriculture, and even potash. Don't fall for the usual punchlines! History bears this out!"
He is number one in the fact he had the most ministers and party workers charged with criminal charges out of any other leader. Left the province better than he found it? Saskatchewan was not on the brink of bankruptcy when he came in but was when he left. Sadly, Devine is the only horse tories have to put their cart behind in this kind of poll and for some reason they are unable to admit he was a complete failure.
I find it incredibly ironic that the woman who takes credit for coining the phrase "Libranos" is now orchestrating a ballot stuffing for one of the most corrupt governments in Saskatchewan's history. I guess stealing from taxpayers is only wrong if you arent a conservative. Hypocrite.
Actually KC, the NDP Potato fiasco icost more then all the PC thieves put together.
Those NDP enjoyed the safety of cabinet though, so they won't be held accountable for their lies, profiteering and vote-buying.
Cheers,
lance
Yes, one a bad investment the other a scheme to steal money from tax payers. I wonder which one is worth....
Hey:
All the lemming NDPer's forget.
Half of the debt was from Blakeney. Hidden in Crowns. Blakeney was running 500,000/annum debts all the time he was in office, just hiding it in the crowns, and this was when the country's economy and grain/oil/potash prices were good.
But I guess Blakeney's debts don't count right??
Like I say.......with NDPers...truth is irrelevant....the end justifies the means......
Lets see now.....how do say SPUDCO. The latest fraud scandal that they knew about and didn't tell the Regina Police about, Murdock "Grabbing your ass is part of my culture " Carriere. Now apparently SaskPower is competing with Tree growers supplying trees for free and running business out of the province.
NDP.....gimme a break....<:0
Ohhh, nasty, nasty, nasty!
The socialists are all angry that people are actually voting for Grant Devine.
I voted for Grant becuase he did make Saskatchewan a better place with industries that are not only flourishing, but world leaders. HE took government out of businesses like Oil and Gas, and mining; both of which are very cyclical industries and therefore very risky. He also had a vision of what Saskatchewan people can be and what this place can do. With the present government, we have no leadership nor vision. Even with the crap that Devine's government had, it is still 10 times the government we currently have. Grant will win this straw poll hands down!
Nice teeth Lorne; you're still a horsefaced freak.
I think for an excellent non-partisan analysis of the modern era of Saskatchewan Premiers, read Dale Eisler's "False Expectations: The Politics and Pursuit of the Saskatchewan Myth"
He outlines the Thatcher, Blakeney and Devine years eloquently, and the dreams and follies of each era. Where Devine could conjure of the imaginations and dreams of people, he ultimately left the Province of Saskatchewan on the verge of bankruptcy.
Whereas Thatcher was all for private industry, and Blakeney all for public ownership, with neither meeting the goals and expecations of resource development, Devine attempted to bridge the two by encouraging private development with public money. While this did have some intermittent successes, this policy led to accumulated deficits and the verge of bankruptcy.
I think the people of Saskatchewan should read this book before they go to the polls this fall. They say history is often the best teacher...perhaps the people of Saskatchewan will look back on history and finally learn from it and not repeat the same mistakes of the past and set realistic expectations.
I see all the Devine boosters are dodging the corruption issue. Ends justifies the means indeed. As long as you're a conservative the folks here dont care if your government steals money. If you're a Liberal and you steal money you are subjected to some of the most hyperbolic rhetoric about filth and sleaze that I have ever heard.
Hey KC
How many corruption issues has your bunch of communist losers ignored in their own back yard.
SPUDCO, Murdock, Caucus Fraud, Sask Power.
This bull cost more than anything the Tories ever did. And alot more than a 1500 horse saddle ,:0
Do Devine supporters understand the difference between a bad investment and purposely stealing tax payers money? Also, to admit Devine was a failure as a Premier does not indicate any political affiliation.
The fact people have to resort to personal attacks tells you something about their character.
"Half of the debt was from Blakeney. Hidden in Crowns. Blakeney was running 500,000/annum debts all the time he was in office, just hiding it in the crowns, and this was when the country's economy and grain/oil/potash prices were good."
Could you send me in the direction where I could find this info?
"Lets see now.....how do say SPUDCO. The latest fraud scandal that they knew about and didn't tell the Regina Police about, Murdock "Grabbing your ass is part of my culture " Carriere. Now apparently SaskPower is competing with Tree growers supplying trees for free and running business out of the province."
SPUDCO? Okay, a horrible investment by a government which should not have invested in the first place. There is a huge difference between a bad investment and theft of tax payers money.
HA! My communist buddies? I am no fan of the NDP anonymous. I just find it amusing how the same conservatives who were absolutely livid at the sponsorship scandal and launched some of the most absurdly over the top rhetoric about "sleaze" and "filth" and "Libranos" could now be voting for Grant Devine for best Saskatchewan Premier--a man who lead one of the most corrupt governments in Saskathchwan's history. Its utter hypocrisy! Apparently it wasnt the sponsorship scandal that drove some peoples anger at Liberals, it was just a convenient bludgeon with which to beat a party that they already didnt like. It was mock outrage.
And since when was "yeah well your guys are worse!" an argument? Putting aside the fact for a moment that the Saskatchewan NDP are not "my guys" to begin with (I voted for Jimmy Gardiner) I was always taught that two wrongs dont make a right.
Devine ran deficits of approx 50-600,000/year. He was in office for 9 years.
His debt was provincial public debt, not in the Crowns.
Thetotal accumulated debt was around 14,000,000,000.
Do THE MATH!!!
It is common knowledge about Blakeney hiding debt in the crowns.
Do you think he had a bank account and paid cash while expropriating potash mines and driving away private investors?
Where did they get the money for the land bank to pay higher than market value for farm land?
should have been 500,000/600,000/year
So any link to the acuall figures?
I have to laugh at all the historical revisionism going on with the Devine years.
I remember in 1986 when Finance Minister Gary Lane before the election projected a $265 million dollar deficit for the coming year. Then, after the October election, it was then oops, it was actually closer to a billion dollars. Just a small math error there.
Yes one has to be consistent when it comes to corruption. Devine and Mulroney were both routed at the polls for their indiscretions in 1991 and 1993 respectively; In hindsight, this paled in comparison to the Federal Liberal Sponsorship scandal. If Canadians are so outraged about corruption, then why didn't they punish the Federal Liberals in the same fashion as the PC's?
The inconsistency just isn't among Conservatives, it's among Canadians as well. Corruption is bad, regardless of which party is committing it. Period.
"So any link to the acuall figures?"
Try the Finance Dept.
Figure it out. If Devine totalledapprox. 6 Billion in debt, where did theother 7 come from.
Answer is common knowledge. CROWNS.
You don't pull money out of your ass to buy farmland, set up a land bank, and expropriate Potash mines, buy pulp mills to name a few.
There is no argument that there was some debt secured by the Crowns in the 1970's. It's called sound leverage and can be used to earn more money than what you are paying out in interest charges.
In 1982, there was approximately gross debt of $3 billion dollars secured by $10 billion in assets. That is a 3 to 1 ratio of assets to liabilities. Very sound financial position.
Now compare that to 1991. After nine and half years of Devine rule, Gross Debt stood at $15 billion dollars with assets to secure approximately half that debt. Firesale selloffs such as PCS and Cameco stripped the province of valuable assets and make the province more unstable financially, to the point where credit agencies downgraded Sask's debt to near junk bond status.
You can make all the arguments you want, but this much is a fact: The PC's were so hellbent on running the province into the ground, just so that "evil NDP" couldn't govern ever again. The fact that many members were jailed just goes to show it went beyond mere incompetence to outright criminal activity.
The ghost of Grant Devine still and will haunt the province for years to come. It just baffles me that the people of Saskatchewan are about to elect Grant Devine the Second in a few months!
Excuse me.
But when you use debt to buy an asset, you still have debt. Especially when Potash prices (they expropriated the mines) fall thru the floor, Land Prices (via NDP land Bank, prices fell thru the floor), Pulp Mills (We were on the hook for that one).
Problem is the they weren't the price they paid for them.......so no it was not a secure, sound investment.Maybe to a socialist.
By the way.....taking companies like PCS from being Gov't owned to Publically traded (The NDP like you to think their crown are "publically"owned , they are not, they are gov't owned)was far from a fire sale.
The province received 75% from the potash industry before they expropriated them. About 12% was for the company, the remaining for workers. The NDP (NO DAMN PROFITS for you) Party was so worried about someone making 12% they expropriated them and thus inherited all the overheads of running them, also creating a whole beuracracy to go along with it.
This in turn scared any further investment in the province and in turn had a very negative impact on the provinces growth.
Potash was only one of many the NDP did this to. Thus scaring of any investment.
This is outright incompetentce.
Who really wanted to come here and do business when gov'ts are acting like a bunch of marxists.
This was not at all sound fiscal management, and anyone who says it is cannot have any understanding of what it takes to draw investors into the province..
Buying something that deppreciates in value is not sound financial management.
I honestly do not know how you can call 3:1 ratio when the asset is depreciating. <:0
They did what most do who do not have a clue to finance. They bought at the top of the cycle.
You wanna see deficit.
Just wait til the province gets the bill for his new chompers.
No wonder he wanted 800,000,000 from the feds.
You know. It isn't the fact that Devine won. It is just sweet to see Tommy Lose!!!!
Where are all the lefties now?
To Anonymous - you can't be serious about comparing Devine's fiscal management to Blakeney's.
Of course the lefties were going to bash Devine, no matter what his record was.
But when evaluating Devine, almost every reasonable observer put aside the left-versus-right rhetoric and concluded that his reign was a disaster. This would include moderates like Dale Eisler and Murray Mandryk.
Not saying that Blakeney didn't hide debt in the Crowns. But when he left office in 1982, the economy was still in fairly good shape. In fact, a rallying point for the Tories was that "the government is in better shape than the public."
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